and obamacare is a big government program. i don't think joe can be too aggressive. he doesn't have to be obnoxious. that's not his style anyhow. but he has to take on every single one of those. the other thing i think is is important for joe biden, i believe, that he has got to remember, that this is not for him. nobody is going to vote for him or paul ryan. if you are going to vote for just joe biden or paul ryan. if you want to vote for paul ryan and joe biden, you can't do that. it's not about paul or joe, it's about barack obama and mitt romney. and joe biden has to keep bringing it back to the fundamental choices. move forward with obama or move backward with mitt romney. i think joe has to make that point over and over and over again. and then i think it is important for us to realize that in the past there have been some interesting moments in vice presidential debates. we remember when dan quayle said he had as much experience in congress, and he said senator, i served with jack kennedy, jack kennedy was a friend of mine. senator, you are no jack kennedy. me